After the long-awaited AUKUS submarines announcement, ASPI director Bec Shrimpton and senior analyst Malcolm Davis give their analysis of the decisions unveiled in San Diego on Tuesday AEDT.

In conversation with David Wroe, Bec and Malcolm give their views on the role nuclear submarines can play in deterrence, the cost of the program weighed against the potential costs of underinvesting in defence, the need for an overhaul in skills-creation, the risks to AUKUS of information-sharing paralysis and future political headwinds, and the merits of the phased approach to the introduction of AUKUS submarines.

Guests (in order of appearance):
- David Wroe: www.aspi.org.au/bio/david-wroe
- Bec Shrimpton: www.aspi.org.au/bio/bec-shrimpton
- Dr Malcolm Davis: www.aspi.org.au/bio/malcolm-davis

Music: "Just Wondering" by Maarten Schellekens, licensed with permission from the Independent Music Licensing Collective - imlcollective.uk